xie_xie_xie
18 May 2007 @ 03:55 pm
Oh Queer as Folk, how I love thee...  
I frequently amuse bore people with the story of how I discovered Queer as Folk and the huge impact it had on me, and how I fell in love with Brian and Justin and thought I was losing my mind because LESBIANS DO NOT PERVE ON GAY BOYS and then of course I found out, lots of lesbians love the Brian/Justin, and I am not alone, and that the very lovely Queer as Folk fandom is full of many warm and soft and beautiful women whose sexual identity is somewhat well let's say fluid, which makes this the best place ever for me.

Not to mention that writing porn for a bunch of women is one of the most lesbianic things I've ever done. But I digress. The point is, I discovered Queer as Folk, Brian and Justin, and my own inner pervert fangirl, from watching the show.

A while ago, many many weeks ago at an unspecified time in the past, I read a fic in which the author in his or her author's notes said something that conveyed, in his or her own words, that he or she was not really sure if the fic got the characters or setting or plot right, because he or she had not actually watched many episodes of the series.

Not long after that, but once again at an unspecified time, another writer made a statement in his or her fic that flatly contradicted something that happened on the show. In an ensuing discussion in the comments section, it was apparent that the author didn't know this, because she or he had not -- yes, you guessed it -- watched the whole series, or even as much as half of it.

People should, of course, write whatever they want. If they watch 101 and are filled with the burning passion to write about these characters, I won't try to stop them, although I will encourage them to set their fic during the first few episodes and not write a post-513 series, but once again, I digress.

I defend their right to write any story they wish, but I will, I admit it, judge them. I will burn with righeous indignation and fume inside and call my fandom friends and say OMG why why why do people who have not watched the show, and do not know the characters' voices, lives, and how they evolved over time, write fic about them?

Queer as Folk fanfic authors, I beg you, please watch the show. Do not form your ideas of who Brian, Justin, and the whole big beautiful queer family are from reading fanfic or meta or watching YouTube clips. Please watch the show.

We may still differ in our opinions after that. I might still not believe in your Brian and Justin, your Michael and Ben, your Lindsay and Melanie. You may not believe in mine. That is what makes the world a deeply troubling place for control freaks like me to live go round. But their voices are on the show. Their characterizations are on the show. Their body language, how they look, how they kiss and fuck and walk -- all on the show.

And to apologize for subjecting you to my unseemly begging and the judgments inherent in a post such as this, I offer you something lovely that we can all enjoy:



Cap by [profile] cherrygurl31
 
 
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[identity profile] happier-bunny.livejournal.com on May 18th, 2007 11:30 pm (UTC)
I don't think this classifies as a problem. I agree 100% but then, I'm one of the friends you call when it happens and vice versa. :)
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:14 am (UTC)
Oh well, you're not a friend, you are my wife. Of course we are as one on this.
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[identity profile] lady-erzulie.livejournal.com on May 18th, 2007 11:45 pm (UTC)
Oh, you have no problem... I completely agree with you. If you're gonna write about the show, know the show. Shit like people who don't know what they are talking about, or make Brian some big sap calling Justin 'baby' or 'angel' or crying all the time or some other pathetic crap, like, need to back away from their computers, or go watch QaF and then come back..sorry for my rant, but I know you feel my pain.
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:16 am (UTC)
Baby scares me. Truly.

So do babies, but that's a different post. ;)
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[identity profile] oh-amelia.livejournal.com on May 18th, 2007 11:59 pm (UTC)
ITA.
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:16 am (UTC)
As it should be.
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[identity profile] testdog65.livejournal.com on May 18th, 2007 11:59 pm (UTC)
I know you had a point to all of this, but I got distracted by the picture.

~Ellen
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:16 am (UTC)
What?
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[identity profile] herewego15.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 12:03 am (UTC)
I always love when you write about how QaF and your love for the boys! I have to agree with you. There is nothing that I can add to this. :)
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:17 am (UTC)
Yes, it's true. My position is unassailable. ;)
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[identity profile] snowmore.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 12:03 am (UTC)
Beautiful cap. Sending thanks.

It only makes sense to watch all you can, the five seasons being the most important component, before you attempt fanfic. I never thought of it, but maybe some of the really OOC fics are from those who didn't drink and slurp up all 83 episodes, time and time again. What they're missing!

And I'm a straight gal who certainly had my eyes pried open by the hot Brian/Justin sex and enduring love. They changed many lives.

Tis all!
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:18 am (UTC)
The B/J love transcends sexual orientation.
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(no subject) - [identity profile] snowmore.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 01:34 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 05:06 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] gaedhal.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 12:04 am (UTC)
The first time I came across this I was all WTF?
The writer basically said that she'd seen some
pictures in someone else's journal of B&J -- and
then wrote. It was obvious that she was from some
other fandom and just stuck on "Brian" and "Justin."
Sorry, it doesn't work.

I have the same problem with writers who are constantly
bugging the Flist for "details" they could (and should)
look up for themselves. This is YOUR story -- do the
work for godsake! Don't ask me to do it for you. And
if you don't know the show well enough to know where
to look for the name of the guy who wrote the article
that dissed Brian, or the name of the doctor who
got Ted hooked on crystal, then maybe you shouldn't
be writing "canon" stories until you know what you're
talking about!

Is THAT too much to ask?

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[identity profile] epicallytired.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 01:06 am (UTC)
Howard Bellweather (SP?) 203, Dr. Crystal/Dr. C (not sure of the ep but it's season three). May I write fic now :P
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(no subject) - [identity profile] gaedhal.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 02:55 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] epicallytired.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 09:35 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] such-a-steph.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 02:13 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] gaedhal.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 02:55 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:19 am (UTC)
[identity profile] lunachickk.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 12:08 am (UTC)
Mmmm... Chacha.
*sighs happily*

Oh yeah, you are totally right.
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:19 am (UTC)
Well, putting cha cha on a post certainly seems to derail the conversation!
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[identity profile] singlewoman.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 12:10 am (UTC)
I completely agree. Any writer, well any writer worth his or her weight, will tell you that you must know your subject. So I do not understand how someone who has only watched a couple of episodes or read a couple of fics can understand the scope that is QAF.

Many thanks for the pic!
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:20 am (UTC)
YOU ARE USING THE ICON OF BLINDFOLDED ESCORT!JUSTIN!
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[identity profile] rebeccama.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 12:11 am (UTC)
I seem to have happily missed something, but I agree. Actually I would argue you should probably watch episodes multiple times to really get the characters.
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:21 am (UTC)
I deliberately waited a long time before posting this, and obscured the details, because I didn't want this post to be "about" anyone in particular, or a specific fic, but just about the issue. So if you missed something, it wasn't recently.
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[identity profile] finnfan.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 12:12 am (UTC)
hey...a lurker speaks :P

I don't understand how people can do that (and it always pisses me off royally to find out when it happens *tries to cool down*)...

It's so...disrespectful.
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:21 am (UTC)
I agree, it is. Well put.
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(no subject) - (Anonymous) on April 18th, 2017 03:55 am (UTC)
[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:22 am (UTC)
You should have Pulse Point 4 by the end of the weekend. :)
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[identity profile] sevigny7.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 12:49 am (UTC)
Well, it does seem a little presumptious, especially since I have been obsessively watching the show in its entirety more than I'd ever admit anywhere else than here (where I can be cozy with a number of other obsessives). After all this obsessiveness I was still reluctant to post my only try at fic - two little drabbles - lest they not be recognizably IC. And thanks for the cap - it's a lovely, lovely, lips-almost-to-the-neck moment. Yum.
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:23 am (UTC)
I know. I spend HOURS watching the show, trying to make sure my characterizations and voices are right. I know I joke about "research," but I've watched things other than the porn, seriously. ;)
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[identity profile] my2cats.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 12:55 am (UTC)
I totally agree with you.
I hate reading fiction where I start wondering if the author ever even watched one episode of the show.
How can you write about Brian/Justin if you don't know the characters at all...and don't get me started on the sex...

*drools over the cha cha scene*


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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:23 am (UTC)
CHA CHA and SEX!!!!!!!!
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[identity profile] passing-through.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 01:00 am (UTC)
WORD.
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:23 am (UTC)
Exactly.
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[identity profile] particles-of-0.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 01:01 am (UTC)
Xie,
Just taking this opportunity to humbly bow down to you for writing the lovely b/j porn fic. I am your slave, dear.
Jane
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:24 am (UTC)
Okay, nice icon... I've never seen that before.... I kind of like Brian's shoulders, so it makes me quite happy...
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[identity profile] epicallytired.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 01:02 am (UTC)
um... yeah.

really, that's all I got, but then, as bunny said, i'm another one of the people who gets to hear you lambaste the wrongness talk about the differences in fic from those who have actually seen the show to those who think that Brian and Justin are pretty dolls with which to play.

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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:24 am (UTC)
And I like their names.
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(no subject) - [identity profile] epicallytired.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 09:38 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_alicesprings/ on May 19th, 2007 01:33 am (UTC)
ITA, as I'm sure is no surprise to anyone.

You skipped the bit about how people should also watch the show before they write meta.

*ducks*
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:24 am (UTC)
I actually think they should watch the show BEFORE THEY HAVE OPINIONS AT ALL!!!
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[identity profile] shadownyc.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 01:39 am (UTC)
ITA! If someone is watching QaF for the first time and has only scene the show through S3 and is inspired to write I think that's great, but they must label the fic post-314 and leave it at that. If the characters they then write don't fit my image of post-314 it's then my choice to stop reading the fic. A person who hasn't viewed complete eps. beyond any point should never write a post-series fic because they don't know the progression taken by the characters to the end of the series.
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:25 am (UTC)
It actually seems obvious, doesn't it?
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[identity profile] not-yet-defined.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 01:40 am (UTC)
ITA with every you said

However what i really want to know is why haven't they watched??? what is wrong with these people? why wouldn't they want to bask in the loveliness that is every second of every minute of every episode that graced the screen??? well ok, i didn't actually enjoy every second. but you know what i mean.

now, i must go and continue my efforts at corrupting my sister. i think she is up to 110.

oh, and that cap is lovely.
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:26 am (UTC)
I do wonder why they don't just watch it. It seems odd.
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[identity profile] jane2005.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 01:43 am (UTC)
I defend their right to write any story they wish, but I will, I admit it, judge them.

I appreciate all your comments, but especially this one. I read a writer once criticize negative commenters for "pretending to be critics" and I really Really REALLY wanted to write a comment about the fandom being rife with people pretending to be authors, so fair was fair.

But I restrained myself. A year ago, I wouldn't have. I'm so good these days.

I totally enjoyed your proper invocation of the term "lesbianic" as opposed to the pejorative usage it's taken on in many fics.

And, finally, thank you for the lovely picture.

I find the comments esp. interesting as I've been perusing fics written somewhere around 2003, and the Brian and Justin are very different from the more grown up versions that is my post-S5 imagination of the characters.

I like the more mature versions better. But I love the earlier fics too. Your comments are very interesting in light of this, is all I'm saying.
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:28 am (UTC)
I find some older fics, even brilliant ones, sometimes hard to get into because the seem "OOC" to me, but I doubt they seemed "OOC" when they were written. This is especially true of things written between S1 and S2, and during and right after S2. I mean, I hate to say it because I love her fics, but Myrna has Brian and Justin "OOC" to me. But I believe it's because of when she wrote, and because I watched the show all at once, I never had an earlier characterization fixed in my head. "Little boy Justin" just doesn't really exist for me, however much I love reading him in, you know, Rizabeau and stuff.

Hey, I just watched "The Queen" and thought of you!
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[identity profile] such-a-steph.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 02:01 am (UTC)
Amen sister!
writing porn for a bunch of women is one of the most lesbianic things I've ever done
Oh Xie of one liners and great wisdom, that is so profound!

Once again I am grateful for my inablility (and often lack of desire) to pursue the deep caverns of fan fic. This exists? That is truly frightening, and forces me to stay in the confines of retread and recs from trusted friends.

Personally I can't think why you would take to writing when there was still another episode out there to be taken in - first at normal speed, then replayed, then once more frame by frame. It's called TEH LOVE porn loving fic research! I'm sure I recall you mentioning this methodology in a previous post!
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:30 am (UTC)
Re: Amen sister!
LOL, yes, I am a very serious, hardworking fan fic author. My beta can tell you, later, after I publish the end of Pulse Point, just how many hours I spent researching things FAR less pleasurable than endless slow mo repeats of 107 sex. ;)
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[identity profile] silent-seas.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 02:37 am (UTC)
the very lovely Queer as Folk fandom is full of many warm and soft and beautiful women whose sexual identity is somewhat well let's say fluid, which makes this the best place ever for me.

Ditto.

he or she was not really sure if the fic got the characters or setting or plot right, because he or she had not actually watched many episodes of the series.

I have the opposite problem--I've watched the entire show and have had several years of repeat viewings, but I haven't been very successful (IMO) creating IC stories.

Part of the problem is that there are certain aspects of the way I understand the characters that generally don't match with other people's interpretations. I instinctively try to reconcile Brian and Justin with what I've learned about actual human beings, to make them more real to me, but that usually backfires and makes them less in-line with canon. (Which makes sense, given that the show isn't based on actual people.) It would be nice if I could draw from only canon content, and less of my own bias, but my brain hasn't accomplished that yet.

Queer as Folk fanfic authors, I beg you, please watch the show. Do not form your ideas of who Brian, Justin, and the whole big beautiful queer family are from reading fanfic or meta or watching YouTube clips

ITA. Having incomplete knowledge of the source for the story is easily fixable Watching canon isn't exactly a hardship. Every writer should do it.
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:34 am (UTC)
I haven't noticed it in your fic, but I HAVE noticed it in fic and in discussions about the show and characters with people, that they will bring in their own experiences or their general knowledge of human pyschology or behavior, and use it to justify or shape their chacterizations of Brian or Justin or whoever. And I feel that really harms the characterizations.

I feel that it's not completely inappropriate to consider those things, maybe around 5 percent, but I try to find something in canon that is similar to what I'm writing, and use that as directly as possible to build out my own scene, characterization, dialog, etc. I want THEM to be right, not the psychology to be right. It's a real pet peeve of mine, particularly in meta.

I was beta'ing something the other day, and I questioned something the author had Brian do, and she explained it as something consistent with Brian's pyschology. And I said, "Name one time, ever, in the five years of canon Brian ever did anything like that."

It wasn't that her proposed action was "out of character" in that someone with Brian's personality type and history might not have done it. It's that in five years, we never actually saw Brian do anything like it, so from a dramatic standpoint, IMO it was "out of character," even if it was a rational characterization.

If that makes sense.
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(no subject) - [identity profile] silent-seas.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 08:24 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 08:30 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] silent-seas.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 12:42 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 05:05 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] silent-seas.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 05:16 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 06:19 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] herefordroad.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 02:48 am (UTC)
reading qaf fic in the voices of the characters i know so well is important to me and that's what makes a fic stand out! i don't think i've read anything that came from a summarization off of youtube, etc., at least i hope not. btw, i love this pic of brian and justin...309 isn't it? one could write a very hot fic about it.
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:35 am (UTC)
Yes, 309, the cha cha dance. It owns me.
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[identity profile] vlredreign.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 03:00 am (UTC)
I wrote something after having watched I think three seasons. It was an S1-S2 thing, so I wasn't outside my depth. After watching through S5, my thoughts on the characters changed. And evolved even more after subsequent watchings.

Now, I've never watched Supernatural. I wouldn't dare write a fic about those guys, cause I wouldn't have the first damn clue.

Yeah.

Say, that 309 clip is yummy. I guess Brian smells good.
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[identity profile] xie-xie-xie.livejournal.com on May 19th, 2007 07:35 am (UTC)
I guess he does!
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