ITA. Wholeheartedly.
I love my boys, I love the family. They have all been stupid at one time or another, I will say so if the need arises (mostly at marathons). I also have a tendency to defend their actions when the need arises too.
We all have our favorites, yes Brian has become mine, but it was not always so. When I was watching for the first time I saw things absolutely from Justin's POV.
Like you, I do not want to read B/O or J/O. I do not see them apart ever (post 513) and I will never write fic that assumes otherwise.
I feel I have learnt so much more about your views from this little vent. Our views really are so alike.

I honestly don't have a favorite between Brian and Justin. I think I started out liking Brian more, or perhaps IDENTIFYING with him more, but my love for Justin is so big it hurts me, so now I love them both the same.

Xie

I cannot agree with you more!

I think part of my view was influenced by the fact that I saw S5 first (in a 24 hour period of time). I had no real problems with it (even if I did alter my impressions of it after seeing S1-4 a little). At the time I knew nothing of the fandom and Cowlip. I saw the end as positive because I am 100% POSITIVE that Brian followed Justin to NY. 510 changed Brian because people do grow and life-altering events can have that effect.

Brian & Justin just do it for me. I agree 100% about the fanfic preferences.

*basks in the Brian & Justin love*

I think any comment that begins "I cannot agree with you more" is a good comment. ;)

YES!

Blonde Boy Ass needed to be said. Justin needed to leave in 507. There were times when Brian was a shit (birthday hustler shhhh I know that did not happen), there were times when Justin was a brat (Vermont) ummmmmm so fucking what.....How Brian asks Justin to move in with him in 414 is sweet and wonderful. He acknowledges that he wants Justin with him, always....I love them both, equally, I love them best together. Brian does not need aplogizing for, nor does Justin, they simply are.

Sigh, I love you. Please come drape yourself around me again soon, kthnx.

I hit the back button when I see character bashing and that includes of Brian or Justin. I can't tell people what to write (nor would I if I could), but I don't have to read it. I do find myself raising an eyebrow at the attitude, "In order to defend my favorite character I have to vilify all the people he cares about."

I liked the fact that it was about a group of imperfect people and their relationships. Brian and Justin was not one person being given a "boyfriend" as a prize as is a common theme in so many books and films, but about two men becoming partners.

I couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!!

Ditto. Brian or Justin bashing by a B/J fic writer pisses me off as much as other character bashing in a B/J fic.

Yes, you wrote that very wonderful post... *pets Suz*

That is all. ;)

Travis

LOL, well, you know I love me some Emmett!

I'm with you I love Brian and Justin and in my mind they still could have made it work even with Justin in New York what really burns me is why can't we have a happy f***** ending we have it with hetors/breaders why not with them ....

sorry if I'm ranting.... hugs : kaylin

I think the ending was weak dramatically, but I'm fine with it. Justin says they'll see each other all the time, and when Justin says it, I believe it.

That´s funny! I used to feel the same way about them...

Now, I have just that feeling about Michael and Brian... strange world!

Brian and Michael as friends, or as lovers?

As friends, I love them. I hate the Mikey hate.

As lovers, it's totally made up and thus, slash, just like Spike/Angel or Kirk/Spock, and thus I have no interest in it. I have never gotten into any kind of non-canonical pairing and am not into slash at all.

I agree as well.

Brian + Justin =teh love

*nods*

I agree with everything you said.

I can say I like the character of Debbie, Emmett or Jennifer. But when it comes to Brian and Justin, I just can't say that. It's one with the other. All the time.

LOVELY icon! And I totally agree. :)

Xie

I so needed to read this today. I’m deep into a Brian/Other fic (Why do I do this to myself?!?), and I really needed a smack upside the head as a reminder that, for me, it’s all about the B/J love. Not that I ever doubted it, but it’s so nice to see it spelled out.

Oh, and character bashing completely ruins a fic for me. It’s one thing for an author to point out a flaw, to call a character on their own stupidity so to speak. But outright character bashing where the author clearly has a deep dislike for said character – well, that’s why they invented the Back button, isn’t it?

~Ellen

Brian/Other makes me utterly want to hurl and gouge out my eyes, even though I believe people have the right to write it.

I simply won't read it. And you shouldn't either. ;)

interesting entry. While I love both Brian and Justin independently I really believe that they're each other's missing piece. It's scary to me that I say that b/c I'm so not one of those people who believes in soul mates or that someone can "complete" another person. But both Justin and Brian are broken in some ways (brian more so than justin imo) and they just work better together.

That is pretty much consistent with how I see it.

On the other hand, sometimes I make Justinites weep, because I also don't think Justin compromised or gave in when he went back to Brian in 308, don't think Brian owed Justin an apology for the "blond boy ass" scene, don't think if Brian had just asked him to stay in late S2 that it would have fixed everything, and hey... I don't think there was anything wrong with the way Brian asked Justin to move in with him in 414, I think it was beautiful and very romantic.

You talking to me? ;)

Yes, I think those things that you don't think. I admit it and I know that I am probably very much alone in thinking them. But I cannot help it, it's my emotional andnd rational response tothe way the characters behave.

I love the B/J love more than anything else, and that's what I want to read about in fics and that's what I aim for when I beta your story (and also in the little story I wrote). I try very hard not to let my Justin-bias interfere with the B/J and push me to twist the characters out of shape so that they can fulfil my vision and emotional needs.

I am ok to think of Justin living a fulfilling life of his own, without Brian. I like that by the end of S5 we are told very clearly that he can do that and succeed. But I know that the characters I have seen for 5 years would be happier together than apart and that the Justin I love loves Brian even when I don't particularly like him. So if Justin doesn't have a score to settle, I don't see why should I. And this applies also to the other characters.

Yes, my love, you're like my Brianite friends who love Justin because Brian does... you love Brian because Justin does.

I believe that Brian and Justin's love and partnership MUST be predicated on their ability to live without each other, because otherwise it's a sick dependency. That is one of the aspects of how I'm playing around with their travel schedules in Risks, although that's about other things as well.

However, I believe that while Justin could be okay without Brian in his life, he'd always have an empty place in his heart, and he'd never love anyone else that way again.

I think that Brian could get by, would never love anyone else again, and if things went very wrong might lose his center and potentially even die, without Justin. Because Brian is not as stable as Justin, and has a damaged ego, whereas Justin has an undamaged ego and is much more stable than Brian.

But I really believe they are soulmates, and I additionally believe Justin is Brian's salvation, just as Gabrielle was Xena's.

I have limited interest in either of them as characters independent of their relationship with each other.

Same here.

I don't want to read about them with others, I don't want to hear about their lives before they met, I don't want to read fiction in which they are seperated for a long time even if they ultimately get back together, I don't want to read meta that hates one of them or blames one of them more than the other for the rough patches in their relationship (although certainly one or the other is off track and even wrong at various times, but overall, to me, it's a two-way street).

Same here.

I also don't think Justin compromised or gave in when he went back to Brian in 308, don't think Brian owed Justin an apology for the "blond boy ass" scene, don't think if Brian had just asked him to stay in late S2 that it would have fixed everything, and hey... I don't think there was anything wrong with the way Brian asked Justin to move in with him in 414, I think it was beautiful and very romantic.

On the other other hand, I also don't think there was anything wrong with Justin having already packed his bags in 507.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, I don't care about anything that happened in S5. :-)

In summary, I hopelessly love Brian and Justin.

Me too.

But I do identify with Brian more, I understand him (his motivations, the way his mid works) better than Justin and for this reason I tend to...not exactly make excuse for him, but just..."give him a break", because I know where he comes from.
I try to do the same with Justin, but it's something I have to work on, not something that comes to me naturally.

Also, Brian is the hottest fucking thing ever, so my brain gets all mushy when I think about him...;))

That said, it's all about teh B/J to me. As much as I love Brian, I could never ever read and appreciate a story where he's with someone else (or worse in love with someone else!!), same for Justin.
They are freaking soulmates. They complete each other. They are always and forever.
Amen.

Sigh sigh sigh. I love you.

I don't want to read about them with others, I don't want to hear about their lives before they met, I don't want to read fiction in which they are seperated for a long time even if they ultimately get back together,

I'm going to be contrary...okay?

Brian has had one real relationship...Justin and Justin has had two...four to six months with Ethan and Brian. Do you honestly think that it's healthy for either of them if that's it, that's the scope of their relationship experience? one for Brian when he dies in his, hopefully, mid-eighties and two for Justin when he dies, hopefully ten to fifteen years later, in his mid-eighties? I seriously don't mind reading about either of them with others, I like angst, if I know that ultimately they will come together. For me it's the struggle that matters, it's the truths learned when fighting a good fight. There's only been one story that seriously pissed me off because even after they were back together, it was wrong, it felt wrong and the story was wonderfully written, I just couldn't handle how it went down, how they ended up.

I will say though that I won't read a story where B/J are apart. For instance, I won't read gaedhal's evl stream or creekside canyon for that very reason even though I've read all her other stories and love her writing.

As for backstory, well I love that too but I also totally love biographies, I want to know how people got where they are, was it easy, was it difficult, who influenced them, mentored them, who hurt or got in their way. If we were never told about Brian's relationship with Jack and Joanie, I know I would't have been as sympathetic toward him. If I didn't understand how Brian and Michael had grow-up together, how Brian would use Michael and Debbie as a safe place to get away from his family, I don't think I would have been as sympathetic towards Michael and his feelings for Brian. I want to know that Brian and Justin had lives before cowlip brought them to us because that means they can still have lives now that cowlip isn't anymore and the variations are endless. Oh and get this...I like AU.

You are of course right, no one needs to waste their time reading stories that don't interest them but I can't help but reflect on how many wonderful stories I wouldn't have read if I had used your criteria as a basis for choosing a story.

Honestly, the only reason I'll stop reading a B/J fic is if it's poorly written and I can tell that pretty much within the first couple of paragraphs. Oh and when they become some pathetic hetero-like couple, all domestic and somehow broken, frankly I got me and my friends doing that in RL so I really don't need that in B/J fic.

As for mindless bashing of any character, that just sucks IMO.

Brian has had one real relationship...Justin and Justin has had two...four to six months with Ethan and Brian. Do you honestly think that it's healthy for either of them if that's it, that's the scope of their relationship experience? one for Brian when he dies in his, hopefully, mid-eighties and two for Justin when he dies, hopefully ten to fifteen years later, in his mid-eighties?

Hmmm. No, I don't think about whether it's "healthy" or not, really, because in the Xieverse, Brian and Justin are soulmates, they are the other half of each other. Brian will never love anyone but Justin, ever. It's a miracle he even managed to love Justin, he certainly will never love anyone else. It's Justin or no one for him.

Is that HEALTHY? Well, it's healthier than Brian would have been if Justin hadn't stuck his pesky little foot in the rapidly closing door of Brian's heart and kept him from becoming hopelessly, unreachably hard.

Is it HEALTHY for Justin? That's a better question. It depends on how much Brian can love him, to what extent Brian can allow the connection. In canon and in the Xieverse, Brian manages that, but it was, at times, a close call. Brian teetered pretty much on the edge of total self-destruction or total shutdown a few times, and had that happened, I don't think it would have been at all healthy for Justin to have hung on, no matter how much he might have loved Brian.

But that didn't happen.

So I think that it was perfectly healthy, within the confines of the fact that these are extraordinary, difficult, unusual people who love each other in a way that very, very few people ever love, for them to love each other forever, to have been each other's first, last, and only love.

Now, in real life rather than storytelling, legend, fiction, and the discussion of archetypes, I think that if a person, especially a woman, sits around waiting for her OMG true!love to appear and make her life perfect and wonderful, then she's totally fucked. But that doesn't mean that true!love does not, in fact, sometimes strike people, and that bonds this deep and this soul-altering don't sometimes form between individuals. Rarely, but not never. And to me, the power of the Brian/Justin relationship, like the Xena/Gabrielle relationship, is that type of bond.

Without that, then it's just another boring soapy mess, and frankly, I couldn't care less about them. Brian with another man is so utterly uninteresting to me because, well, I just don't care. Then he's just a guy having serial relationships and ummmm, boring.

I'm also not interested in substituting fan fiction for non-fiction. If I want to read about psychology, co-dependence, improving interpersonal communication skills, or other subjects related to mental health, I'll read non-fiction. Brian and Justin aren't "healthy," they're glorious, romantic, beautiful, a little crazy, difficult, and high maintenance. Just what I'm looking for in a lover fictional couple.

CONTINUED....

I'd started a post, but I didn't like it, and since my head's all clogged, it didn't make a lick of sense.

That's scary.

I was a Brian apologist in the beginning, even though I thought he was an asshole. I still think that, but I'm not as willing to explain away some of the things he did and said. Xie mentioned the 'blond boy ass' comment, which still chaps my ass. Not that it wasn't true, it was the way he said it. On the flip side, I thought Debbie was completely out of line smacking him when he said what he did about Vic. It wasn't a toss off comment at all, it was true. I still think that he wanted to hurt Justin with that comment, and he did. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to that.

Justin, too, made those types of comments that were out of line, IMO. The comment about where Brian's dick had been in the syphillis episode. Yeah, he was nervous, but that was rude. Also, the comment about Gus going to Toronto, when Justin says "what's it gonna take, another bomb?" Also rude.

One of the truest statements that Brian made to Justin was in 308 when he says that when Justin doesn't hear what he wants he walks away. We see this over and over. They definitely have each other's number. They're also human, and say and do things that are sometimes cruel. But in the end, they do love each other.

Do I love one more than the other? No-o-ooo, not really. I probably do lean towards Brian more often, but that's because I have a 'bad boy' thing. always have. I want to fix the broken bad boy. Comes from years of watching soaps, I guess. (Todd Manning, anyone?) The funny thing is, I understand Justin a bit better. I realized this when I first saw 507. ITA, Xie. I practically cheered when Justin went to grab his packed bags. It was the single smartest move he ever made, and made it for the right reasons, not some lofty ideal.

K, SUN

LOL, "SUN"? Why?

Xie

It's all about the Brian/Justin love.
I believe they will be together after 513.As Justin says"We will see each other all the time".We all know if Justin makes up his mind,it will happen.
I believe Justin could live without Brian,but there would be a void in his heart.Brian on the other hand only loved once...Justin.I don't think he would open his heart to anybody else.
When it comes to fiction,I won't read B/O or J/O.I don't mind them being apart for a little while with a little angst.I just believe they are soul mates and meant to be together.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had some of your coffee this morning, it was delicious!!! Thank you so much!

Same here, forever and a day ♥
Nicki

Sigh! So happy!

I can’t believe the timing on your post today. I was going to comment on your post from 11/20, where you quoted from some of your favorite fics, one of them being Myrna’s *tumor fic*. I had a chance to read it for the first time over Thanksgiving. She has written one of my favorite versions of Brian. (I have several, from different fics and authors.)

I’m a complete and total Brian/Justin fan. I need them together because I believe that the only way they can be truly ‘complete’ is when they are together. And by ‘complete’ I don’t mean co-dependant and unable to function without the other. I simply mean that they’re at their very best (and sometimes worst, but that’s life, right?) when it’s the two of them. They share a very rare kind of intimacy, one that is just as deep emotionally as it is physically. It’s something that they will never have (and never should!) with anyone else. I do believe that Justin does have the *ability* to be with someone other than Brian, but I never really consider that a possibility because, short of death (and I don’t do the death fics) he would have no reason.

That said, I am fascinated by Brian. He is one of the most complex and compelling characters I’ve seen and/or read. Part of that is because sometimes, I just find his mindset a very hard one to relate to. And the more fics I read, the more I realize that there are some authors that have the talent to explore and bring that Brian to life for me. That’s why I wanted to comment on Myrna’s fic. Her Brian is brutally honest and incredibly vulnerable at the same time. Another one of my favorite Brians is plumsuede ’s in “Everything at Once”. I read her fic a couple of weeks ago and was completely overwhelmed by her Brian. I feel the same way about Brian in your series of fics. You’ve kept him true, while at the same time, opened him up emotionally and given him even greater depth. And it’s not just Brian. You are very *respectful* of the whole QaF family dynamic and each characters is treated well in your hands.

As for Justin, I don’t just love him because Brian does. His tenacity, strength, intelligence and talent alone would do that for me! Not to mention his lips.

I've been struck recently by how totally I adore you and how often you say things that sound JUST LIKE YOU READ MY SECRET DIARY if I had one.

And thank you for loving my Brian, and my fiction, and posting this, and you've made me so very happy today!

Xie

I agree! At least I think I do. I kind of rambled.
When I first started watching the show, I didn't know if I could because I hated Brian so much. But, the Brian/Justin love overpowered everything else and I actually grew to like Brian more based on how well he was played by Gale Harold.
When Justin came back in 308 he wasn't still just saying he was okay with everything while secretly hoping it would change, he was really okay with it, so no, he didn't compromise. I don't blame him for leaving in 507, as due to the Brandon situation Brian had gotten to the point he was more distant with Justin than when they lived together in season two.
As for post-513, I think Justin returned to Pittsburgh because...well, I just think so. And he wants that damn house.
I also don't like fics where they split up and then reunite much later, because when the show ended, I think Brian was really going to make an attempt to keep Justin in his life, and Justin had managed to get what he always wanted and he wasn't going to lose it.
Although I did read a fantastic story once that was an AU where Brian got the job in New York in season one and him and Justin met in the city about five years later and got back together. Mmm..
Oh, and the character bashing! I don't know what it is with qaf, but people here seem to be angrier than in any other fandom I've come across. I don't understand. Naturally I have issues with the show such as that I can't even think about the lesbians moving to Canada without feeling ragey, but I thought the point of fandom was that it makes you happy.

The Xena fandom had a LOT of anger, in fact, I got into a subtext battle just this morning on the Xenites LJ community. The subtext wars were UGLY, much uglier than anything in QAF.

However, I do agree with you, the fandom should be a place of love and fun, otherwise, why bother? Still, sometimes I like to rant a bit. ;)

Xie

I totally 150% get Brian - I hoped for him, I cried for him, I hurt for him

This is because I so completely identify with Brian (I don't think that makes me an apologist - I actually don't care if other people get him). And although I believe that Justin is Brian's true love - I only feel for Justin through Brian's heart.

This is an immutable fact, I'm afraid.

The profound irony of this, is that one of my most popular stories - based on feedback - is Instinct which is very Justin centred - go figure.

Such is the ironical nature of immutable fact.

Oh darlin, I'll forgive you almost anything including this.

My own beta is a diehard Justinite, and I love her anyway.

What I hate are the Brian APOLOGISTS, for whom Brian can do no wrong, and for many of whom NO ONE ELSE can do anything right. They hate Justin, Michael, Lindsay, Debbie... god, it makes my head hurt.

As for Instinct, what can I say? It owns me. Although, you know, Fly ... well, you know. Like I said.

Xie

*applauds* Bravo wife.

I love B.J together, it's all about The Love fter all, and it's kinda hard to have that when they're with other people :|

And you know I have zero interest in reading Brian/Mikey backstory, or Brian/Lindsay in college. OMG, who cares?! It's about The Love.

And like you say, if the only angst people can write is breakup angst, then they're not looking hard enough at the characterisations. As you've shown, there is plenty of 'canon fodder' to feed the muses. You can have angst without resorting to melodrama.

I think I started off as a Brianite but now I'm a B/J'er. I think. What do you think? I'm not weighted toward one over the other, or am I?

So much of what drew me into QAF initially, and kept me in the fandom before I ventured into LJ land, was the idea that Brian and Justin could have such a complex, enduring, incredibly loving connection. I don't know if that kind of relationship exists in real life, but they gave me a reason to hope that it does, at least for a few very lucky people out there.

I know I couldn't handle that kind of relationship very well--it's too intense and requires way too much ongoing insight into the other person. So, when I see a guy like Brian, especially given his past, accept the challenge of loving Justin like that and succeed at it--that tells me Brian has to be a pretty strong person with a major internal commitment to making things work between them. The same goes for Justin, IMO. I'm proud of them. :)

I love you more than words can express...but you knew that. You are the sun in my sky. :X :X :X

You also know that I could not agree with you more. I've expressed this all over the place. Don't care about b/o, j/o, gale, randy, brian before he meets justin, etc.

IT'S THE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE that makes it SPECIAL and EXCITING and WONDEROUS.

I know where you're coming from. I love Justin and Brian equally and love them as a couple. They are both beautiful and flawed. They love each other deeply. I will always be mystified why two actors (with the writers and directors) produced such a couple - the love, the physical attraction and the intimacy oozes out of them. No other couple compares (male/male; female/female or male/female) - though I'm open to be proven wrong.

I love them both for their strengths and their weaknesses. And though I get the need for separations in the series, I'm only happy when I read fiction where they are together and loving each other.

As others have said, they are complete when they are together. When separate, a piece of their puzzle is missing.

Xie, you capture the love so well. I'm glad you love these guys and they inspire you to write about them.

Truth be told, it doesn't hurt that Gale and Randy are two of the most handsome men that have ever graced the TV screen.

Such a miracle that they were paired. Would we be even talking about them and have stories still being written about them, if either character was played by another actor? I doubt it. Gale and Randy seemed to have the chemistry that helped to shape this great love. Robin