I really like and prefer stories which are canon but occasionally I will read OOC stories if the story interests me and I like the writing. Stories must be well written and must be well edited for me to stick with them.
I love BJ stories and to me their story is one which is universal and I think that this is one of the main reasons why I am now venturing further afield.
These days I am also following some of the authors who I really like when they present their original stories.
That being said, canon stories will always attract me.

But what is the pull of an OOC story about, in your case, Brian and Justin, rather than original fiction? That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around...

I've actually be thinking about this all day and the more I think the more I realize that the stories I like are quite often out of character especially for Brian as well as being non-canon but I still like them. When I think about it, I read a lot of love stories where the main characters just have the names of Brian and Justin. They really are far removed from the originals. I read them though because I like the authors and their writing styles and I love a good romance.
That being said, my favourite stories are still the canon stories but these days I really restrict what I read. I choose my authors carefully and will only occasionally choose someone new.

So, for you, the "magnet" is a specific dynamic between the couple, rather than characterization.

I understand that, but it's a theme that abounds in fiction and popular culture... what is it that calling the characters "Brian" and "Justin" instead of "Bill" and "Joe" (since I've never seen Twilight so I can't relate to that example) makes the dynamic more appealing for you?

I'm not criticizing you that it does, I've just become utterly fascinated by this concept... it's kind of a like a fic prompt, isn't it, really? I might post a song lyric or idea or image as my fic prompt, and everyone will write something different for it. You're sort of saying that the B/J dynamic of Justin getting in under Brian's defenses is the "prompt," and you're open to many many interpretations of it. But why doesn't it work just as well for you if the characters are NOT called Brian and Justin?

And feel no need to satisfy my curiosity if you don't want to! Thanks for responding. :)

Interesting! But you write, too, don't you? How does that play out as a writer?

Where does "extreme AU" start for you? Because as far I know, you wrote AUs yourself, and at first I didn't want to read them either, like most AUs, because I wanted to read about canon like you do. However, after a while I found out that I love AUs that mirrors parts of canon in a different way. It can be even better than the umphtiest gapfiller for 101 to read it all fresh and new and it can be a very delightful fan girlish moment when it's well done.
Which is not always the case, but like you said, there's different tastes and there's good and bad fiction everywhere.

OOC stories are more tricky. I only read them when it's good writing. And that does happen sometimes. Probably that really is very similar to original fic then. Like for instance Laurie's "Making a scene". It's not even that OOC for Brian, but it sometimes is a little. Nonetheless, I believe everything she writes because it's great and heartfelt and powerful writing.
It touches you even if BDSM isn't your kink. And it would totally work as original fic.

I do read original fic, but I prefer to read it as an old-fashioned book with actual pages. I would even prefer to read fan fiction as books, but there's not that much so I settle for what I can get. And that's why my online passion goes to fan fiction. Simple explanation.

An extreme AU would be something like turning a non-fantasy show into fantasy, taking a mundane earth-bound show into outer space, or drastically changing the era a story is set in. Just a very, very extreme AU rather than just changing how two characters met or what their careers are, or posing a "what if" something had or hadn't happened in canon.

I suppose the line between the two is subjective, but at the extremes I think it's pretty clear.

Here is a story I consider a perfect example: Collide by yoursweater. This story is just absolutely "Brian and Justin in name only." It does NOTHING for me as fan fiction, and in fact, trying to see this as Brian and Justin hurts my head. And it's not my cup of tea, BUT... totally brilliantly written. Really an astonishing and powerful story. But truly? Original fiction with a guy named Brian who is an American attorney now living and practicing in Germany and a street kid from Portland or Seattle or something, named Justin, who ends up getting kidnapped and brought to Germany so someone could steal his kidney. (In case you haven't read it. And however far-fetched and even bad!ficcy that description sounds, it's not bad fic. It's a very dark, somewhat noir (okay, that's redundant, isn't it?) story, not really a mystery but a bit of one.

Anyway, my point is, yes, there is good fic and bad fic everywhere, and this is just a taste thing, but when you say you'd rather read an old fashioned book if it's original fic, yes, of course! But why DON'T you? That's what happens to me when I realize a story does not feel like canon Brian and Justin to me -- I close the story and go read a book, LOL.

Now, you might say, well, I'm already reading it, and I get that. That's why I finished Collide and a few other OOC/extreme AUs I've read over the years. What I'm not sure of is why people really LIKE THEM, rather than just get sucked into one or finish it to see what happens. What is the magnet of this type of fic?

Because I think there are people who really like to write this type of story, not because they can't write canon-fic (although some can't) and not because they can't write original fic (ditto), but because they are intrigued or inspired by the idea of taking some element of the canon material and then using it in a totally different way. As if canon were a fic prompt rather than, well... canon, LOL.

This is me thinking out loud, btw, in case you think it makes no sense!

>But why DON'T you? That's what happens to me when I realize a story does not feel like canon Brian and Justin to me -- I close the story and go read a book, LOL.
Oh, it's not that I don't. I am just looking for the truffles I still find sometimes in the fandom. And that's the same with original books, sometimes you read a couple of average murder mysteries and then, at last, there's this moment everything is worth reading for and you are diving into the story and hope it never ends.

Collide sound interesting, by the way. I don't know it.

And about writing fan fiction: Well, it seems to me as a writer as if the structure, the skeleton of the story being already there makes it easier to make up your mind and focus on other things. It's more like a big playground you can put your characters on like I used to take my Playmobil figurines everywhere, like into the bathtub (as pirates) or into the garage. There are some givens about what they look like and how they are but the rest is something that changes with every new games. Sometimes it really is just the names, but hey, if it helps people to get into (original or not original) writing you maybe have to look at it that way.

Hope that makes sense. It's more about why I could imagine writing it, not so much about the reception.

I started writing fan fiction to make someone happy, but what "hooked" me was the challenge of taking characters and settings someone else had created and writing something that really had the feel of canon... but continued the story. To have the characters grow but still feel exactly like the familiar characters. It was what got me excited: can I do this?

To me, writing original fiction is much, much easier than doing that. You're not constrained by someone else's vision or ideas. You just turn your imagination loose...

Well, that makes sense, too. But the restraints can be liberating, too. (Now that sounds like literary BDSM *lol*) You don't have to care about some basics and from there on, you let you imagination loose. See, I have written a lot of original fiction and I can't complain about any lack of ideas, but most of the "material" is something that starts ambitiously and never comes to an end. Not that I don't have abandoned B/J WIPs in my drawer, but the focus on a certain structure makes it easier for me to focus myself. It does not seem to restraint my creativity, in contrary, it inspires me. So, in a way, I see fan fiction as a good "writing school" for me, as a way to learn these things and like a said, as a playground where there's a lot of space but also some rules. Moreover, it just makes me ridiculously happy to be able to obsess about my favorite series and learn something "en passant". Even more since I decided to write the shorter stuff in English to improve my English by writing porn. I mean who on earth has so much fun with English lessons than I have? ;o)

You wrote somewhere that you don't read much fan fiction, mostly write it (good for us). I guess you are just pickier in that department. For me, writing and reading melts together and develops its own dynamics. I am always a reader first, I guess, and then I feel inspired and start to write.

P.S.: @wanting to read OOC stories instead of original:
It often works like this. I get sucked into such a story because of my addiction to QAF and my urge to read good B/J fiction. If it's downright bad, I don't read it (unless it's crackfic and funny, then maybe) but if it turns out be good but a little OOC then I just go along with it.

My answer to this is a little complicated and will hopefully make sense. It is tied up in how I have different taste and agendas in different fandoms and is at heart why I am multi-fandom in the first place.

As I've said before I discovered fanfic mid S2 of QAF's original airing. I managed to resist it for a while because I knew if I started reading I would get hooked and most likely end up writing it myself. At that time, I had no real concept of fandom and as everything happened on a few archives and yahoo groups I had no idea fanfic existed outside QAF. I read everything I found. I was driven for more Brian and Justin any way I could get them, more proof that they belonged together as canon was unformed and uncertain. While AU/AR was never my first choice, I read it regularly. Over time I stopped reading everything and focused on fics I considered well written regardless of canon based or AU.

I read a lot and fanfic became my primary choose of reading. In order to find enough fic to read, I couldn't be too picky. Once I moved to LJ, I became aware there were fic about other shows and characters, I found out authors I liked from QAF wrote about other shows. It was inevitable that I read a non QAF story by a QAF auther. I started seeing recs for other fandoms and reading them. Eventually I found a second fandom then a third etc. I have fandoms I follow closely, a few I've written in, ones I read occasionally, and ones I've had brief, passionate affairs with.

What reading outside QAF has taught me is a lot of times I do read fanfic the same way I would read original fiction. I look solely for quality of writing and the emotional response the story gives me. I greatly enjoy several fandoms where I have little attachment to canon. I almost exclusively read canon based, in character QAF fics because I am attached to canon. I can be more versital in my choices elsewhere. It's the same reason I read very little BSG fiction. I have an intense love for that canon that I don't like to see changed, diluted, or done badly.

There are several reasons I read often fic over original fiction. I like reading about romantic relationships between gay man. I don't have a lot of mainstream options for those types of stories especially not for free. I like the shorter length of most fic and starting with characters and/or stories I know from TV or movies or books allows me to jump right into a story. I already know what they look like, sound like, how they know each other etc. For the length of story I prefer that is a big plus.

Outside QAF, most of the pairings I read are not canon. Sometimes they come from shows I know where I can see potential chemistry between two characters. Sometimes all I really know is the existing dynamic and connection between them. I like exploring the idea of how that could be something else. What if friendship became more, what if there was more going that what we see on screen. Once you accept that leap, it isn't as big of a deal to change other things. I am already playing "what if" changing other things from minor details to a complete AR isn't as jarring. That being said I rarely read stories that take characters to other eras, genderbends, mpreg etc. But changing professions or outcomes of major plotlines works for me.

There are authors I read in many fandoms because I love their writing. There are shows I watch a few times and think it would be better if theses two characters were together and I hunt down some fic. Sometimes I find a fic for a show or movie I saw years ago and think, wow it could have happened that way.

I am pickier about QAF because I love the characters and the canon as is. I do want more of the show as it was. I know what Brian and Justin are like together so that is what I want to read about. Since I don't know exactly what a non canon pairing looks like together I am more flexible in my expectations and just want a good read.

It's interesting -- my only other fandom is, as you know, Xena, and we had AU built into our canon -- it's called "Uber Xena," and there were several episodes that took place in alternate universes where we saw Xena and Gabrielle in different times, different timelines of their same era, even different bodies. So there's no such thing, really, as an "AU" in the Xenaverse, since it was established that they've been together in every time, every alternate universe, every past, every future. It's all canon.

In QAF, I tend to prefer serious fics to be set in the canonical 'verse, the AUs to be very minor variations on canon, and the characters to be IC to the max. I also don't care for original characters. My fic preference is "more of the show."

So in a way, I'm a bit like you. :)

I was thinking after my original comment that the fandom I read the most in outside of QAF is Due South. And while the pairing I read is not canon (they are partners in law enforcement) they were written to have some romantic subtext. The main actor was also the writer/producer and said at the time he was aware of fanfic, slash. zines etc and played with that subtext when writing these particular characters. When the show ended the actors choose the endings for their characters and these two characters rode off into the sunrise together on an adventure. So while writing them as a couple during the timeline of the show is still AU is changing their relationship, to some extent writing them as a couple after the show's timeline is much closer to exploring a viable future for their characters. So maybe in my other favorite fandom I'm stricter about what appeals to me than I realized.

... what is it that calling the characters "Brian" and "Justin" instead of "Bill" and "Joe."

For me, the difference is that when its B and J, I can picture the real people and even when it's OOC they still have the same mannerisms, look, etc. I feel like I "know" them and I can relate better as opposed to so-called "made-up" characters.

It's like the difference between watching a movie in 2D (Bill & Joe) as opposed to watching it in 3D (Brian & Justin.)

Hugs, Cindy

This has been the most frequent response, so I'm guessing it has a LOT to do with it! Thanks so much for answering!

I'll enjoy any AU if I feel like the author thought about the nature vs. nurture of the character even if it means they hardly resemble their canon personalities at all; I always like when the canon has a "presence" in an AU and that the story calls back to it in some way, even if it's by inverting it, if that makes any sense. It's totally fine for an author to say, "But it's an AU so I can do what I want, even if it means the character isn't and wasn't even born the same person," but it's probably not something I'd want to enjoy as a fanfic.

P.P.S.: Some people said here that they like the fact that they know how the characters look like and their general behaviour. I agree, but I also wonder why that is. Because usually, if I watch a film adaptation of a novel I haven't read before, I don't feel tempted to read it afterwards, I prefer to read before I watch it so that I can picture the character myself instead of having the actors in mind.

Yes, that's not at all important to me. Not at all. A dynamic to me exists independently of the bodies who enact it in a dramatic work. It's why I recognized the Brian/Justin dynamic as being the same as the Xena/Gabrielle dynamic. That's my "kink," if you will, and I didn't imagine Lucy Lawless and Renee O'Connor as Brian and Justin, LOL... I was able to make the leap to new characters with a similar dynamic.

Well i never read fics that are OOC/AU because i like the characters as they are and not another thing, i migh just as well read a book!

I quote you:
"When something doesn't feel like canon to me, it stops being fan fiction, and thus, doesn't scratch my itch. The story might still be good, but at that point, I'd really just rather read a book"

First, I consider AU and OOC to be different types of fiction. When I read an AU fic with Brian and Justin, I want to still feel like I'm dealing with the same characters as the show but in a different setting. If well written, then even if the story takes place in 19th century England, Brian would still act, sound and feel like himself within the structure of this story.

I don't enjoy OOC stories because then the men might just as well be named Bob or Joe because they are no longer recognizable as Brian Kinney or Justin Taylor.

Now, why I read them. I am grateful to say that I've read some really good canon fics in every part of each season. But honestly, how many post513 stories can you read without getting bored? I found that after some really good ones (like plumsuede's BYBR), I just didn't want to read any more in this time frame.

A current story that exemplifies an AU but still very much IC, is Timeless by cynical21. It's mostly AU but she keeps the characters very canon-believable (to me).

AU and OOC are totally unrelated, but I wasn't just talking about OOC fic. I was talking about fic that no longer feels like canon, whether it's due to drastic change of setting and timeline (extreme AU) or change of characterization (OOC) or both. Or just because the story is "canon characters in name only," which is essentially original fiction with characters bearing the names of canon characters but virtually no other similarities.

how many post513 stories can you read without getting bored?

I understand what you're saying here, but on the other hand -- once I'm bored, I'm gone, know what I mean? I wouldn't go digging for AUs in a fandom the canon, or continuation of canon, which bored me; I'd go read a book.

Now, I've gotten a few responses that have been enlightening to me as to what people enjoy about digging into extreme AU fic -- or even OOC fic although I find that a LOT harder to understand -- but speaking only for myself, it doesn't give me the experience I want from reading fan fiction. That's a totally values-neutral statement. It's nothing but a personal preference. I mean, I don't enjoy thrillers or suspense or horror novels either, but I don't think there's something odd about people who do. I was just trying to push past my own prejudices and understand this uniquely fandom phenomenon a little better.

Thanks for responding!

I feel just like you; even if it is an AU, I need to recognize the characters.

Hello!

God!It's been a loooong time I didn't come to livejournal. But I was feeling nostalgic so here I am!

I know this probably is a closed topic but I was wondering about this lately, and your post inspired me to put it into words (even tough my writing in english still somewhat sucks, but I'll try).

Anyway, recently I've been sucked to the Twilight thing even tough, to be honest, I think Twilight is a pretty poor written book. I know that you are talking about QAF, and I will get there, I promise. But I have to comment about Twilight only because this is the fandom where OOC/AU is SO much more common than cannon. Actually, I think people (and I included), like it better if the fic IS OOC, especially considering that the cannon characterizations are frustrating and too shallow (to some).

When I first started at the whole fanfic thing some 10 years ago, I didn't understand OOC, slash included. How the hell can you take two clearly heterosexual character and turn them gay?

But, after a lot of thinking and some years of experience in fanfic reading (and now I do love some well written slash), I sorta get it.

What I always thought I loved about fanfic first and foremost was the possibility of getting more of my beloved characters (and that is only reached trough cannon - That's why I love your fics.

But could I read OOC QAF fic? Well, maybe, to a certain point. I love Brian, the way he is, maybe I would rather if he done or said some things differently - like we tend to thing in real life to people that we know - but... would he be just like he is in cannon if his childhood wasn't as screwed up? Would I love him less if he was not as screw up? Maybe not if he retained some of his traits, in a way, that to me he would feel like Brian. And I'm not talking about the physical appearance stuff.

So for me a good fanfic also can have a character I know (and love or like), change them without losing him in the very core. So I'm introduced, let's say, to a Brian that have a lovely family, is not as broken, don't live in liberty avenue and he meets a Justin that is not as sunshine-y etc. Yet, I cannot call them Bob & Jared, 'cause they have the charisma, the strong resemblance and most important of all the chemistry so very Brian & Justin. ctually I can totally buy they as Brian nd Justin, and ask for more.

Is that possible? Yes. Is that easy to find? No, it's F*cking hard. But when you do, is like drug. Just like a well written cannon, sometimes better because it introduces a whole lot more possibilities. Would I enjoy the thing if they called them Bob & Jared? Maybe, but maybe I wouldn't feel so invested or would enjoy it as much, after all I was not looking for Bob & Jared - if so i would have gone to a bookstore instead - which I do also, quite often.

Does that make any sense?

PS: Well, maybe this are fics that stand in between OOC and AU. The characters are different enough to not be thought as in an AU but not that different to be totally lost and on the OOC label.

PPS: Oh, and also, fanfic can turn golden a mediocre addictive book about poorly explored but somewhat interesting and full of potential characthers/dinamics. :) If THAT can clear someone (*cough*my*cough*) conscience LOL